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54: (Not So) Secret Dad's Business


Jey (00:09.96)

Alright big shout out to our live in studio audience Welcome in welcome in to a special Episode for both of us here today you have young dad podcast times Not so secret dad business and that's going to equal something good today. Nate. How are you man?

Nate (00:30.206)

I'm doing well, man, and you're totally right. I hope we have some gold coming out of here today because, you know, with both of us doing some really cool dad casting, let's go there. You know, I've been looking forward to catching up with you, man. So it's great to finally make this happen.

Jey (00:47.136)

I know, we've been trying to nail this down for a few weeks now, right?

Nate (00:51.754)

Yeah, I think we're going close to a month now, yeah.

Jey (00:55.716)

I know we've been trying but that's just life man. That's just life having kids, working a full time, having a life, everything in between that comes up. I moved and everything. So it was just, it was a whole thing. It was just a whole thing. We missed recordings, mostly me, not we mostly me, but you know, overall it's been, we got here. That's what matters. We got here and it's gonna be something good. So.

Nate (01:21.506)

That's it, man. And look, the time difference between the States and Australia doesn't help things too much either. So, you know, at least we got it happening, man.

Jey (01:27.79)


gotta happen and so I don't know if the listeners couldn't pick up on it but you are in Western Sydney Australia I think that's pretty cool I believe you're the third or fourth dad and social media person or coach or someone that we've that I've talked to from Australia

Nate (01:52.846)

Oh, that's awesome. I feel pretty bloody special, mate.

Jey (01:56.18)

Yeah, you guys are, you guys are cool down there because there's a lot of similarities between how, how we parent and how we think. It's very similar. And I've talked to people from both, from Australia and from here. And really even hearing it from Australian's mouth, it's like, it's just like America, just without the guns.

Nate (02:19.55)

It is man, like Australia is very Americanized. Uh, like you've got to realize that 80 to 90% of the stuff on TV is coming in from America. So, I mean, I was growing up on Nickelodeon and the Simpsons and all that good stuff, you know, Ren and Stimpy and the, like the golden age of Nickelodeon. Not what it is now, but the

Jey (02:37.036)

Mm-hmm. Yes.

Yes, which is all which is all on uh, peak peacock paramount plus Paramount plus has all of those like they have a special category for all those 90 cartoons So paramount plus not a sponsor neither is peacock unless they're a sponsor of yours, but they're not sponsored mine, but Um, they have the original rug rats like rocket power wild thornberries All of those different shows all in one category there and it's the coolest thing

to be able to flip through those shows and actually started watching the new Rugrats that's on there, because they modernized it with the animation and everything just to kind of fit more with today. And they updated a lot of the content to make it more relevant. It's actually a pretty good watch, not gonna lie. I have some solo Rugrats watching time the other day, so it was pretty enjoyable.

Nate (03:28.124)

Yeah, wow.

Nate (03:39.978)

Yeah, and I think Rugrats especially is a good one to watch with the kids as well. And I love it because now I look back at Rugrats and I see all those dad jokes, those grownup jokes that you don't notice as a kid. And I'm like, how were my parents letting me watch this? But then again, it's the same with Angry Beavers and Catdog and Rocco's Modern Life. Like they're all pretty risque, but yeah.

Jey (03:44.153)


Jey (03:51.827)

Oh my gosh, yes.

Jey (03:57.624)

because you didn't understand it.

Jey (04:03.903)


Yes, they are.

Nate (04:08.594)

As I say though, you know, like it's not just the TV that's got us pretty Americanized. I mean, we've got seven elevens everywhere. We've got Starbucks everywhere. We've got a five guys up the road. Uh, you know, so we've got a lot of American influence here in Australia, which I think is why it's so relevant.

Jey (04:29.208)

And you guys just have a lot more... deadly wildlife, I guess. Uh, comparison.

Nate (04:35.514)

Yeah, well, that's right. We don't have the firearms, but we've got every poisonous creature available. So and don't get don't get me started on the drop bears, mate.

Jey (04:41.808)


Jey (04:45.54)

The what?

Nate (04:46.69)

The Drop Bears.

Jey (04:48.812)

Like bears? Like-

Nate (04:50.85)

So they're an offshoot of a koala. They look just like a koala. But what, yeah, but these things, man, drop bears, they're vicious. So they will actually stay up in the tree and wait for something to come underneath the tree. They'll just drop straight out of the tree on top of you and attack you.

Jey (04:56.192)

I love koalas.

Jey (05:12.216)


Nate (05:15.382)

No, come on. I've got to be honest, man. Us Aussies love winding everybody else up. And that one is a bit of a joke. Drop bears don't exist, but it's one of our favourite stories to tell.

Jey (05:15.512)

That's crazy.

Jey (05:25.052)

Oh dang it. That's pretty cool. I want a koala to die. Well, like I don't really want to get chlamydia from a koala. So I don't really want to interact with one, but from a distance, I think they're great.

Nate (05:41.918)

Oh, they're gorgeous, man. They're gorgeous, but they are vicious. They will warn you and they will hurt you if you get too close. But I mean, they sleep 98% of the day anyhow. So to find one awake is pretty rare.

Jey (05:43.32)



Jey (05:54.564)


Jey (05:58.2)

Make sense? So, and the other day, just while we're talking about poisonous creatures, I left to go get in my car. I turn around and I close my door and they're sitting on my door as a black widow.

Nate (06:11.274)

Yeah, I hear those things are pretty bad.

Jey (06:11.308)

It wasn't a big deal. They are, they're real bad. And it was right on my front door and I just had to kill it with my shoe real quick. I already looked pretty weak, but I was like, what the crap? Like that's, that's cool. Right as I'm leaving.

Nate (06:28.606)

Yeah, absolutely. We'll often find spiders in our cars, but the ones we tend to find are called the huntsman. And these things, as a baby, with their legs, they're about three inches across, but they will grow to the size of a pasta dish. And they move at about three feet per second. Three feet? Yeah, I wanna say three feet a second. And so they...

Jey (06:30.208)

up the blood pressure.

Jey (06:43.344)


Jey (06:52.489)


Jey (06:55.92)


Nate (06:57.442)

They don't build webs and they catch their prey by hunting it down. And they'll eat insects, they'll eat small rodents, they'll eat lizards. Anything that's smaller than them, they'll eat it.

Jey (07:14.748)

Whoa, that's crazy. Now it's also true in Australia that you have to kind of check underneath your car door handle before you get in sometimes to make sure you don't grab something.

Nate (07:24.014)

Oh yeah.

Yeah, the huntsmen, they like to hide under your door handle. I mean, it's not a habit that I'm into, but I've seen instances where people have gone to open their door and something's come out and crawled up their arm or whatever. So it happens.

Jey (07:43.108)

That's crazy. Have you had any like close encounters or like for you personally any close, um, almost incidents with anything deadly or poisonous?

Nate (07:56.046)

Well, I'm originally from the west coast of Australia, from the small city called Perth. And over there, they've got these small brown snakes called Juggites. And they're quite toxic. They're not one of the most toxic snakes out there, but they are toxic. And so growing up on 30 acres of land, you'd see them quite often, but they weren't a threat. We'd just sort of lop their heads off with a spade and move on.

Jey (08:02.809)


Nate (08:26.034)

You know, if they got too close to the house, it wasn't a case of relocating, which is kill them and move on.

Jey (08:33.68)

Definitely. Okay. Well enough about wildlife. I haven't ever really ran into anything deadly. You know, I almost got stung by a bee today. Almost cracked my pants because I've never been stung by one. So I don't know if I'm allergic. I wasn't really trying to find out today. Screamed pretty hardcore the other day, believe me, like a couple weeks ago. There was a bee on my leg. Just...

Nate (08:45.314)


Jey (08:59.972)

Chillin' on my leg as I walk back in. I feel something on my leg, and I already walked back into my work building. And then I let out a, ah! And it was, I freaked out. I thought I was gonna die. I know, normal stuff, tough guy stuff, but you know, it's not a good time. Animals are great, but.

Nate (09:22.222)

Look, when you don't know if you're allergic or not, it is kind of that fear-based reaction, I think. You don't want to get messed up, so I get that.

Jey (09:33.74)

Yeah, but I'll go at it with any spider that I find. Like, I just saw that black widow and I just kicked it on the door. They even blink an eye. And that thing's gonna hurt me way more than the bee will. Cause I can get EpiPen'd by someone or something like that, but... That black widow, if it gets me, like, that thing's poisonous, it gets into my blood, I have to turn a kid off my leg if it bites my leg and... Stop the blood flowing. I don't want to do all that to myself. It's not a good idea, but...

Nate (10:00.502)

Yep. I feel you.

Jey (10:03.788)

Regardless, I want to know how did not so secret dad business start? because you Your platform your podcast is really cool. It's a one-man show except for when you have guests on and You go into the weeds on a lot of Topics that I haven't quite ventured into yet. Like I'm pretty sure you did an episode about child trafficking. I believe

Nate (10:32.734)

Yeah, that one was about child exploitation material online.

Jey (10:35.824)

Yeah. And you've gotten into some other hot button topics and you're not afraid to jump into the weeds to help educate dads like myself and just your even like your neighbors and whatnot. So how did it all start? Like what was the motivation behind it?

Nate (10:56.502)

Um, well, basically it all started off because I'd relocated from the West coast to the East coast and I don't have a huge friend support here. For quite a while I lived in isolation and I lived by myself. My nearest family are about an hour and a half away, two hours away. So it's not like I could just call my family and go, hey, I need someone to hang out with or whatever.

And so I met my wife when she was four months pregnant. And we started casually dating. We didn't expect it to go anywhere. But then five months later, my son was born. And so, you know, I was doing the dad thing for a couple of years. And by the time he reached four, I just went, man, I've got all these questions, but no resources to that I can find. I don't have.

those friends around. I don't get me wrong, I have drinking buddies up at the pub and all that sort of thing, but none of them were dads. These were all younger guys. And so I couldn't really talk dad stuff and all that sort of thing. And so I decided I'm going to start a podcast. I've been talking about it for two years, but I finally pulled the trigger and went, no, this is something I've got to do. I can.

talk to dads around the world, and that's the beauty of the internet, is that I have access to everybody, you know? And I thought, well, let's see how things are different culturally in different countries. Let's see what advice I can get from other dads. And it's just about having those conversations between dads that you don't normally take the time out to have. I know you're a massive Seahawks fan.

Jey (12:51.588)

Die hard, die hard.

Nate (12:51.966)

and so, gotta love the Seahawks, man. And so that for guys usually is sports. That's the go-to topic. You're not talking about fatherhood or the sleepless nights or you're not talking about the poo explosions with diapers or you're not talking about formula shortages or anything like that. You're talking cars, sports, all that superficial stuff.

Jey (12:59.448)

Yep, 100%.

Jey (13:14.507)


Jey (13:18.072)

Yeah, you're talking cars, sports, women, sex, drinking, like pretty much it, depending on what circle you're in, unless you're in your circle with your church friends and whatnot, then you're talking, you know, very, obviously you're talking more probably politics and the Bible and just other closely related things to church and whatnot, but yeah, no, you're right.

Nate (13:23.202)

That's it.

Jey (13:46.832)

all very superficial on the surface. You're not talking about the nitty gritty.

Nate (13:49.814)

Yeah, no, that's right. And so that's why I decided to do it because that way I could start loading up my toolbox, as I like to call it, with different coping mechanisms, different tools, different, just different ways of being able to handle things. And so over the years, I've spoken to everyday dads, I've spoken to other dad casters, I've spoken to personal coaches, performance coaches.

I've spoken to a sex addiction coach as well. That was a very controversial episode that I did. But again, I've taken all this information that I've learned, put it into my toolbox and it's made me a better dad. And to top it off, I've started building this network of dads that I'm always talking to and bouncing stuff off of. And again, with the internet, it's...

so great because I could just send off a message to Philly or Seattle or Jersey or wherever really and talk to one of my dad mates and go hey I'm struggling what are you doing with this or how are you working through this you know.

Jey (15:02.82)

Definitely. And I think, you know, that's pretty common across like a lot of us dadcasters that are doing this kind of thing. But for us, we started somewhere totally different. Like we were kind of talking about a podcast, my brother and I, for, I don't know. For a while we were talking about it because we would game and then during, while we were gaming and stuff, we would just have these really deep conversations.

Like our gaming was when we would have like our conversations where we would get into it, where we just talk like deeply and intently. PlayStation network probably have some great data on all that. If they really want to cover it up for us or get it out for us, that'd be cool. But no, we would have these just great conversations and we always said, man, this would be a great podcast. Like this, this is good stuff. Like it was, it was good. And then we would bounce the idea around. Nothing would ever happen. And.

Bouncing around some more and we were kind of stuck at that superficial level to where it's like, well, sports is kind of overran. We could go more niche, but more niche is even overran if we go a certain sports topic and then we're limited to grow. We could do like a talk show, but again, it was very superficial topics we were thinking of. And then one day I'm sitting at work. This is when I worked at a bank.

It kind of just came to me out of nowhere. Like it just hit, like it finally all clicked. The name, the idea, everything. Cause we had talked about like how we would want to do a show that would be, but people would want to listen to because it benefits them and somehow they get something from it and it helps them somehow because we bring. Such a different perspective. Like we didn't grow up together. Him and I, we have the same mom, but different dads. So we were raised on very separate paths, but all.

but ultimately had very similar outcomes to each other. We're very much alike in a lot of different ways. What to me is interesting because I'm a psychology person, so it really shows a lot of nature versus nurture, how we were raised and how we both kind of came up. And a lot of our similarities are very similar. But even after that, we were like, what can we do? And then we started the podcast and started out really slow.

Jey (17:31.376)

because we were really trying to find our footing, we would do segments. We really hated doing segments because it was a lot of stop and go, stop and go, stop and go. And it was hard. It was like, this doesn't, this is fun. It's whimsical. You know, we have a real life topic. We have a parenting topic. And then we have a fun game or bit. Like, it wasn't like, it wasn't enjoyable. And then we're like, you know what? Let's...

let's try doing what Joe Rogan does and just have freeform conversations and just see what happens and then all of a sudden we're like recording these episodes and we're catching these ideas and now we're here and it's like this is crazy because we've connected with like you said it's so nice to connect with people from all over like we've connected we haven't gone to Asia or really too far into Europe or anything just because I don't think our platforms

Nate (18:04.782)


Jey (18:30.564)

like translate for them for some reason to like their like feeds and followings. It's really weird. Like I've noticed my show lands really well in Australia for some reason. And like your show does really well here. It's really interesting how similar it is when it comes to that kind of climate, but I have very little listenership in Europe overall, zero in Asia pretty much. But you say Sydney in the United States. Those are my.

Top two areas. That's really interesting, very interesting, but we started it and just started talking and getting to know other dads. And at first it was just supposed to be something for us, small, and now it's started to grow to where we have it in community. People hear us, talk about us. Our reels get 10,000 plus views, and it's like this is...

a lot of exposure and it's like we need to just keep being I guess a vessel for the message we're trying to spread about healthy fatherhood and keep the why because we're really trying to make an impact on one person whoever this really lands with we wholeheartedly believe if it needs to land with someone it's gonna land with them. They're gonna find it. You know, God makes no mistakes. It's gonna land with them.

Nate (19:37.175)


Nate (19:54.655)

Absolutely, man.

Jey (19:59.968)

when it lands, it's gonna land and it's gonna be for a reason because they need to hear that latest episode. And it's so important that we keep that perspective because we never know when we're truly gonna just skyrocket to the moon. Could be any episode. It could be a past episode that all of a sudden goes from a hundred plays to 10,000 plays overnight because all of a sudden it caught on with 10,000 people. And

And then they're binging and then they're like, this is some good stuff. I need to keep on this. You know, you never know. And so it's just so important to us to keep being that vessel because we got to keep doing what we're doing. You got to keep doing it because that's essentially segue here. That's what fatherhood is. We have to keep going. We always got to keep going. No matter if we're tired, broken, beat down, no matter what we're going through, we got to keep going because we got to keep going for our kids.

Nate (20:58.222)

That's it, man, that's it. And look, one thing I do wanna touch on with you there as well is the fact that you're saying it may land with someone, someone may need to hear it. And that's why my podcast is called Not So Secret Dad's Business, because one, it's having those talks that don't normally have. And so my tagline is taking the secret out of fatherhood. We're talking about it's no longer a secret.

But secondly, that was the second motivation for me to do the podcast was for me to be able to not just personally connect with other dads, but also have those conversations that some dads really are comfortable having. And they can listen, like you said, listen to your content or my content or whoever's and take something away from that. That could be beneficial for them. Even if it's just a case of, oh, wow, man, I'm not so alone. You know, but

Jey (21:48.336)


Jey (21:53.636)


Nate (21:55.602)

Yeah, I feel you, dude. But as for fatherhood, you're right, man. Like it's, it's very much like podcasting. You just go keep pushing forward. And I think it's like anything in this life, you know, like life is hard. And, and like, when I was a kid, I couldn't wait to grow up because it meant I could eat ice cream in bed, you know, I'm a grownup, I can do what I want.

Jey (22:06.564)


Nate (22:21.59)

But I'll tell you right now, I don't remember the last time, in fact, I don't remember ever eating ice cream in bed. And life was a hell of a lot harder than I ever expected it to be. And yeah, just pushing forward, man, like that one foot in front of the other.

Jey (22:38.072)

100% and I think it's interesting when we really think about why we're doing our podcasts and whatnot and fatherhood and Sharing our story sharing the not-so-secret dad business Because ultimately it's become our blueprint it's become our success story Like what we went through and what we overcame and all those things that we learned along the way are Going to become someone else's game plan. It's gonna become their playbook

You know our stories that we tell or that we have our guests tell or anything like that Those are the game plans. Those are the playbooks for our listeners to learn from to study to Get their plays from to get their tools from to increase their tool bags And it's so important that we keep doing it because it's Is what it is and that's what fatherhood is too at the same time. We're giving our little ones the tools

that they need to be successful human beings, to be intelligent, to be empathetic, to be compassionate, to be authentic, to be themselves, to be empowered, to be self advocates, to be anything they really wanna be in this life. That's what ultimately our job is with them.

Nate (23:55.342)

Yeah. Well, hey, look, let me ask you this, Jay, because I found this for myself, but have you found that doing a dad-centric podcast, all the while being a dad has sort of, even strengthened or cemented that identity of being a father for you? Because I know for myself, I feel more like my identity is based around being a father than anything else because I'm doing my podcast and I'm-

Jey (23:57.997)

Yeah, good.

Jey (24:13.036)


Nate (24:23.054)

Thinkin' dad-centric stuff constantly, and it's not just with my son.

Jey (24:28.196)

100% and it definitely makes me want to continue just to be a good dad involved and keep going. It gives me a lot of motivation. But it also shows me how real...

Nate (24:42.079)


Jey (24:49.108)

and how many fathers aren't stepping up. I heard someone today, and I know this person, I work with them, and I heard them refer to the father of their child, their co-parent, as the child's other parent.

Jey (25:13.297)


Nate (25:15.212)

Yep. It's taking away any respect for that title whatsoever, or that role.

Jey (25:19.751)

It broke my heart, because it was like...

Yes, you guys might have your differences and things are frustrating and he's not meeting his burden and he's not doing what he needs to do but

Like that's that boy's dad. Like you can't take that, like that's not his other parent. Like that's his dad. Like yes, like you.

Nate (25:39.478)


Jey (25:52.156)

have your own feelings and your feelings are valid and it's a struggle but

at the same time, like I'm not gonna call my kid's mom their other parent. Cause I feel like that just strips her down to a level that she doesn't deserve. And even if she did, like it still wouldn't be right because the kids aren't saying, oh, that's my other parent. They're saying that's my mom, that's my dad. And through doing this podcast, it makes me realize like, I don't

Nate (26:06.691)


Jey (26:26.988)

want to be an another other parent. I don't want to be another dad that's you know failing to meet his burden and honestly it gives me a lot of motivation and insight just on perspective and being able to share different people's perspective. Well I gain different things from each recording that I do for myself and a lot of it's reinforcing.

Nate (26:31.15)


Jey (26:56.144)

previous ideas and whatnot and giving me another way to phrase it or say it or think about it. Ultimately, it helps share these stories which are important and these perspectives. This last week or recently, not this last week, recently I put out an episode about taming the high cost of college with a financial expert and it was really cool.

It's like I'm not anywhere near that, but I need to be a lot closer than I am. Like I need to be doing something.

Nate (27:28.11)

And he had some really interesting points as well about the fact that you don't need to go to the name brand college. You don't need to be going to Harvard or Notre Dame or whatever. You've got community colleges which you can get the same education at for a far cheaper, if not get a full ride. And I thought he had some fantastic points.

Jey (27:32.543)


Jey (27:39.204)


Jey (27:51.176)

Yeah, he did. And it's just interesting to hear these different perspectives about these topics that I don't think a lot of people are thinking about, you know, and I love when I can get the perspective from a dad and a guy who's been married for a significant length of time because that's so good because a lot of

Not a lot, but it's more common than not that some of my listeners are going to be divorced. And being able to share that perspective of the long-term relationship side of it, mixed with the divorce side of it, me saying like, yeah, that makes sense. Because for me personally, I wasn't doing that in my previous marriage and I'm doing that now in my being engaged again and whatnot. It's different. It's changed.

you change, you progress and whatnot. And honestly, the place where I want to apply to take this stuff back to a lot of the times is to the different dad groups on Facebook. Cause those are...

Jey (29:01.292)

What's the way I want to describe this?

I don't want to be gentle, but I don't want to be too, uh, too mean. They're a big cesspool of cluster, um, for the nicest meanest way you can put it. You know?

Nate (29:18.951)


Yeah, I agree with you. There's a lot of supportive stuff in those groups. There's a lot of, and I think I mentioned this in my last episode as well about the DoDad group. There are dads going in there going, hey guys, I screwed up, I cheated on my wife. How do I fix it? As like, you don't, you don't fix it. Like if she doesn't allow you to fix it, there's no fixing it. Like you screwed up. You've just got to deal with the consequences as they come. And...

Jey (29:45.805)

Yeah, there's nothing you can do.

Jey (29:50.2)


Nate (29:50.966)

coming to 200,000 men to ask for their advice, more likely than not, you're gonna get ripped to shreds.

Jey (29:58.752)

you're gonna get shredded but the main part of that though you can also take that she cheated on me how do I fix this you don't

Nate (30:08.365)

No, you get a lot of helpful advice.

Jey (30:10.856)

you don't you don't fix it like as men we have an innate sense and it's just genetic and it's um what's the word

I can't think of the word, but instinctual, that's it. That's it. It's instinctual for us to fix things. We see rock, we want make wheel. We see stick, we want make fire. Um, and it's how we are as men. We want to fix, we want to make things better. We want to take that all on ourselves and take care of the problem, fix the problem, move on from the problem. And I feel like that's the biggest part of it.

Nate (30:27.43)

Instinctual almost.

Jey (30:55.588)

that so many men in these different groups that are needing some kind of support or help or Something really need to be told and I know this is harsh and I heard this from Will Smith when I was going through my divorce I found it. I needed it. It stuck with me ever since You are responsible for your for your heart Not the person that cheated on you not the person that did you wrong? Not the person that hurt you

not the person that put you into the situation now. You have to get over that, you have to get past that. You are responsible for you now. That's it, that's all you can control. Control what you can control as part of the 12 step program in addiction recovery.

Jey (31:44.612)

So many times I just see myself or find myself scrolling and I see those posts and I'm like, bro, I really just wanna comment, bro, you need to get over it and let it go. You need to get over yourself and let it go. You have to get over yourself and let it go. And it's so often the answer because we hold on to these things because we hold on to the hope that we can fix them moving forward. And you can't.

Nate (32:13.974)

Yeah. Well, look, another one I've also seen in the groups, which I think is quite prevalent. And it comes back to the fixing it thing, right? And they're like, my wife has this problem and she was venting to me. I told her how to fix the problem and she blew up at me. What did I do wrong? And it's like, man, your wife doesn't want you to fix her problems. Like she's not a child. She can fix her own problems.

Jey (32:34.657)

Of course.

Jey (32:39.745)



Nate (32:43.142)

In that moment that she's coming to you with issues, all she wants you to do is listen and for her to feel heard. She doesn't want you to fix it, but as men, you know, it's our first instinct to just go, oh, easy, I've got this sort of, all right, so what you want to do, right, is you're going to do this, and this, and then problem solved. You don't have to stress it anymore. But women are emotional beings that don't work.

Jey (32:49.68)



Jey (33:01.986)


Nate (33:12.966)

logically like, like we do as men. And all like I say, it's, I want to slap these men. It's like, dude, just sit down and listen. Don't give her feedback. Don't tell her what she could be doing differently. Don't tell her, don't say anything. Just listen. Be empathetic and go, all right, I hear that must be hard. You know, and then she feels heard. She vents and she moves on

Jey (33:15.607)


Jey (33:30.212)


Nate (33:42.298)

nine times out of ten, she ends up solving that issue by herself without us even needing to get involved.

Jey (33:50.088)

Exactly and so often it's not even the need to fix it. It's just the need to say something and along with that it's when these other men are straight onto this dad group like yes you need support but there's also a point with it that when you say

I'm not even gonna bother trying to talk to her, I'm just gonna air my dirty laundry right here. You already lost dude, you're already behind. Like there's no fixing this now, like you're not even, you're past the point of even trying where you're just, it's just gonna be an argument and a fight and it's just gonna blow up. You're already down the path of no return almost and like it sucks to say that but at the same time like.

That's the truth. You're not helping yourself, you're not helping anybody, you're not helping the situation. And you're right, because women are emotional beings and men are more logical. The way that I like to describe it, and that's the way.

Men always say I don't understand women. Let me help you understand women real quick. Take this back to your audience and apply it and it's gonna make a lot of sense. Us as men, our brain is a big warehouse. Imagine just a huge ass warehouse. Huge, right? And it's just filled with rows upon rows upon rows of metal racking. But

Nate (35:24.459)


Jey (35:32.204)

All these metal racks we can reach. We can reach the top shelf, we can reach the bottom shelf, we can reach all of it, right? It's designed for us. We go into this warehouse, we turn the lights on, and it's just those lights that go ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-

As we were walking there, we noticed all these other boxes, but we're not worried about those boxes. They're just there. They're all in their spot. They go back to that spot. None of the boxes touch. None. None of the boxes touch. We go, we take the box out, we put it on the floor, we sit down on the floor, we play with the toys in that box. We're done with those toys. We put it back. We tidy it up. We put it back on the shelf. We go to the next thing we're going to go do. And we just, we're around that warehouse all day.

Depending on how big it is, we get in our little car and we drive around and we go to these next stops. A woman's brain is a spiderweb. And if you've ever seen a spiderweb under a microscope, you know that it's an intricate, beautiful design. But it's intertwined, it's interconnected. And then I want you to imagine taking a lightning bolt and running a lightning bolt through that, you know, with the little lightning bolt that you can see, it kind of tracks it. You see electricity bouncing around.

Notice how it never goes in one linear direction. It goes straight for a little bit. It goes up, down, left, right, sideways, down, diagonal, up, down, up, down, up, down, left, right, right trigger, right trigger, left trigger, left trigger, square, Y, X, Z, B, A. That's a woman's brain.

Nate (37:02.782)

Nah, there's no way I can.

Jey (37:17.376)

And it never stops. Women also have a capacity to use about 30,000 words a day. And if they don't get that need met, guess who's going to get the last 10,000 of the day? You are. And guess how many you have as a man per day?

Nate (37:34.422)

That's it. That's it, we are.

Nate (37:42.044)

I wouldn't, I'd guess around 10,000, but go for it.

Jey (37:45.68)

That's actually 100% spot on. Man, we have 10,000 words a day. So our words are very limited. They're few and far between. If you work a job that takes a lot of talking like I do, I work in mental health. And so I'm talking a lot. And so when I'm done and I'm tired, I don't have any words left. I don't want to keep talking. I don't want to keep doing it. But at the end of the day...

I know my fiance still probably has about 10,000 words left, even though she's a school teacher, she still probably has about 10,000 words left she needs to get out. So guess what? I need to listen, I need to ask her, I need to push, like pull it out of her to get it out. But that's the simplest way to think about it. And once you apply that, it makes a lot of sense. Those two things.

Nate (38:35.262)

It really does as well because I mean, it explains why women can multitask so well, why they can think about a million different things. You know, I've got to get the kids to the dentist, then drop them at school, then I've got to do the grocery shopping and da da, yada yada. And it's because everything is intertwined and everything is connected. But like you say with us guys, man, it's like we're focusing on that one thing at that time and then we'll pack that box away.

Jey (38:50.128)


Jey (39:02.425)


Nate (39:05.354)

And you know what, my favorite time is to pull out the nothing box. And I'm sure you're the same, the nothing box. And I've tried to explain the nothing box to plenty of women in the past and they don't get it. And and I'm sure everybody listening knows what the nothing box is. It's when you're just sitting there, you're staring into space and your wife goes, what are you thinking about? Nothing. Like there is nothing. I'm not thinking.

Jey (39:26.316)

love that. Nothing. Women do not, women don't get it. They do not get it. Like, I'll talk about like, we talk about sleep in mental health. And I work with mostly women like, I didn't really sleep good last night, like, couldn't get my brain to turn off. And I'm like, huh, interesting. I'm like, right. And I'm just like, I'm like, I don't.

Nate (39:50.466)

Do you want to check out my nothing box?

Jey (39:55.82)

Like, get the, they're like, yeah, I needed to put on some like music or some noise or something or like my fans broken and I couldn't sleep without that because I just need the noise, which is actually a trauma response related to an underlying abandonment issue. Fun fact. Um, but they're like, yeah, I just like, I just can't turn it off. Like I just can't like, I was just, it wasn't able to shut my brain off last night. I'm like, huh, that's weird.

They're like, what do you mean? I'm like, I just lay down and I close my eyes and I just stop thinking and I go to bed. And they're like, they grab their desk and they're like, it shuts off. Like you can just shut your brain off like that. I'm like, yeah, I do it half the time when we're talking, but.

Nate (40:34.87)

That's it, stop thinking.

Nate (40:51.326)

Yeah, look, I've got ADHD as well. So I mean, like my mind is a million miles an hour, as it is. So when I do get that moment to take go to the warehouse, pull down that nothing box, it's a reprieve. And, and I'd get myself caught doom scrolling or whatever, I lose all track of time. And I'm like, Oh, wait, I've been in this box way too long. I've got to put this baby away and start pulling out other boxes and get stuffed on.

Jey (40:58.906)


Jey (41:05.856)

It is. It's nice. It's the de-

Jey (41:17.316)

Mm-hmm. I Go start running around again. No, I do as well and it's And I think there's a clear advantage for boys and men who have ADHD because it It's also a downfall at the same time because it's very easy to forget also Women if you're listening to this and your man has ADHD Don't move his stuff

Nate (41:46.634)

Don't move it, do not do it, do not do it.

Jey (41:47.812)

Don't touch it, don't move it. If I leave my wallet on the bathroom counter or if I leave my keys hanging up in the hallway on a picture frame.

Leave it, don't touch it, don't touch it. Because if you move them, I'm gonna go to that box to where I left those keys and if they're not there, I'll, it's downhill.

Nate (42:05.306)

like that.

Nate (42:15.01)

They don't exist, that's the thing. ADHD, no they don't, they're not there, you can't see them, they don't exist. And this happens with people too. You know, I find myself, I'm like, oh, I haven't caught up with such and such for ages. Hey man, it's not because I don't like you, I just forgot you exist. But yeah, don't move anything. Like it drives me insane, I'll put a book down. Or I'll just put something on the coffee table.

Jey (42:16.44)

They don't exist anymore.

Jey (42:24.408)

Yeah, 100%.

Jey (42:33.281)



Nate (42:42.85)

come back five minutes, where's my thing? Oh, I put it away. Where? It's in that cupboard. I won't see it. It could be right in front of my face. I will not see it. So I don't know if that's an ADHD thing along with a man thing or not. Because I mean, there's.

Jey (42:53.666)


Jey (42:58.876)

I think it's a little bit of both. It's a little bit of both honestly, but I'm glad I'm a man with ADHD and not a woman with ADHD because ADHD and menstruation are the worst of enemies. They do not mix at all and there's a lot of clinical research out there on it, but the mix of ADHD and women and menstruation it makes ADHD symptoms a hundred times worse.

while going through the... And it's because of the levels of the testosterone and the estrogen are at a low during menstruation. And so the chemicals that do help balance the ADHD for women, even those who are medicated, and it's really hard for women to actually get diagnosed in general because it's very commonly misdiagnosed in women.

Nate (43:28.534)

especially the emotional dysregulation.

Jey (43:57.236)

unless it's diagnosed by a provider that also has it, is the most common and successful way that I've seen it actually diagnosed with women. Just be grateful, men. Just be grateful. That's all I'm gonna say there. Because it's a nasty correlation, and it makes those symptoms and those ADHD things for women a bajillion times worse than everything else.

Nate (44:23.502)

Absolutely, I've seen that in my sisters.

Jey (44:25.472)

Yeah, so be really nice to your significant others if she has ADHD and she's on her monthly.

Legit run and hide but also be really nice

Nate (44:38.11)

Yeah, the other option I have for you there as well, fellas, is heat packs, chocolate, movies, like rom-coms. They love them. Get them a packet of tissues, a nice warm blanket, and then disappear. Yep. If they call you, say they want you to, hey, stay and watch the movie with me, that's fine. Maybe sit there and do that, but don't interrupt. Don't say anything. Don't

Jey (44:50.06)

and leave and leave disappear they don't want you around

Nate (45:08.114)

Be there. That's it.

Jey (45:09.58)

Yeah, you could probably even get away with falling asleep.

Nate (45:13.898)

They probably could. Then again, I've also, that's a touchy one though. I've also been caught in the past where I've fallen asleep. You didn't even watch the movie with me. What was the point of us spending time together? I don't know. We were in the same room on the same piece of furniture. We were together. But again, this is how men and women differ so vastly.

Jey (45:15.148)

Yeah, you know what, if honestly...

Jey (45:32.24)


Jey (45:36.452)

hundred percent and so I'm curious for you because I didn't know this previous you met your wife when she was four months pregnant so your son is not your biological son correct so how has that been for you guys navigating that figuring that whole I mean I don't know what that conversation has been like if you've had a conversation with him about it yet or

Nate (45:49.818)

No. That's correct.

Jey (46:05.336)

what the plans are for that kind of conversation or just how that's worked. Cause you, he's, I don't know how old he is now, seven. Okay. Yeah. I thought he was about seven, eight. So.

Nate (46:12.854)

He's seven now. Yeah. Yeah, look, okay. So if you go back into the backlog of the podcast, I temporarily had a co-host, Judge Gonzo. Shout out to Judge. He lives in New Jersey and he's my favorite foul-mouthed chucklehead. If you're easily offended with foul language, don't go back and listen to those episodes. But we did do an episode where we were talking about, which has been removed, just so I...

doesn't complicate my life if my son's biological dad does hear it. But we were talking about what that talk would look like. And literally a couple weeks later, his biological father reached out and said, this was the first time in like six years that he had reached out and said, hey, I was wondering if I can meet my son.

Jey (46:54.542)


Nate (47:10.89)

And so that put as a dad put me into a tailspin because I've, I thought the whole dynamic was going to change. How is this going to affect my relationship with my son? Am I now going to be relegated to stepdad? Is he going to like pick up his parental rights and start expecting to be able to do all that dad stuff and blah, rata, rata. And so because of that, we had to see Eli down and say, Hey buddy.

Um, we need to talk to you, right? So, you know, there's a mommy and a daddy and a mommy and a daddy make a baby. And he was like, yeah. I said, well, in this situation, I'm not the daddy that made you, but I'm the daddy that chose you and loves you. And he goes, well, what do you mean? I said, well, before I met mum, she had another boyfriend and he helped mum make you.

He's never been around. I know this is new for you, but he's never, no, he made you and he decided that he was not in a position to be a good dad. And so he stepped back and told you, told you, mum, I can't do it, I'm sorry. I said, so when I met mum, I didn't expect to be your dad, but I watched you get born.

I've been here and watched you learn how to talk, how to walk, how to feed yourself, all that fun stuff you followed me around. I'm the daddy that shows you and loves you. And that's the only thing that matters. A daddy is not just somebody that can make a baby, because I know men that can make babies really, really well, but they're bloody poor fathers. So having that conversation with him was interesting.

He took it surprisingly well. No tears or anything like that. That being said, he won't come to me. Yeah, but he won't come to me and ask questions about that for the pure fact that he's scared of hurting my feelings. He saw how much having that situation come up, how hard it rocked me. Well, I was useless for six weeks. I was no support to anybody.

Jey (49:10.64)

That makes one of us.

Jey (49:17.773)

Not yet.

Jey (49:21.293)

Yeah, not yet.

Jey (49:28.101)


Nate (49:33.662)

I couldn't be a good father, I couldn't be a good husband. I was barely being a good me, you know, because I was trying to really unpack everything in my head. And I think ADHD has made that worse because I'm an overthinker as well. So if I get locked in up there and I'm stuck in my head, just I go off almost like a mental doom scroll and I overthink everything. But yeah, you know, it came off really well.

It worked out well. He knows that his biological dad's out there. When Eli is ready to meet him, I'm sure he'll broach that subject. We've told him that he can ask as many questions as he wants. And we've told his biological father as well, that you're not forgotten in our family, like we do talk about how you're not around and this sort of thing. And Eli is aware that you're out there.

So we're not bad mouthing you or anything like that. Like it is what it is. And so I guess when it comes to Eli meeting his biological dad, whether that's a year from now or whether it's another 10 years from now, he's graduating high school and decides he wants to meet him. You know, that's Eli's choice. We are not gonna force that on him.

Jey (50:54.852)

I think that's so important that when it came up you guys had the conversation you didn't shy away from it and It came straight from you guys to him versus him hearing something one time from someone and then having preconceived ideas and confusion and anger and Distrust around the whole situation instead. I think you guys handled that incredibly well

Was it hard? Absolutely. Is that whole situation, even from my perspective of being a divorced dad and their mother getting into a new relationship right after us and then being pregnant three months later?

I'm sure you can connect the dots on how that all went down. And then him coming right into the picture before I'd even met him once and, you know, all the things that happened in between, like, it sucks, it's scary. Because you do worry, like, am I gonna lose my kid? Are they gonna try to replace me as their dad, like, ultimately? And I love how you phrased that. And I think, just to go back for a second before I get there, but.

Nate (51:41.846)

Yeah, that must have been rough, man. Yeah.

Jey (52:08.28)

You know, you guys had the honest, transparent conversation with them. And yes, it was a big thing, but there was a probably a lot of little conversations that you guys had or little times where he brought up something that was bothering him to where he was able to receive that bigger conversation because he knew that he can go to you with the same thing. And you showed him that you can go to him with the same thing. So that trust goes two ways.

So since then, I'm sure there's still been little talks like, hey, I need help or this thing's bothering me. I'm getting bullied at school or whatever it might be, those littler and then they're going to turn into bigger things. And that's why I said not yet. You know, he's not talking to you about it yet. He's going to talk to you about it someday. He's going to get curious. It's going to happen. It's just natural human nature. We want to know these things. And I think it's so important that you guys don't

Nate (52:54.795)


Jey (53:05.988)

Boudmouth is biological dad because What's that? It's gonna make him want to

Chase that more.

Nate (53:18.062)

Mm-hmm. Absolutely. And look, this is another episode I want to do at some point if I find the right guess, but I want to do an episode on parental alienation, right? Because yes, there are deadbeat dads out there. And you were mentioning before that obviously with your coworker, there's obviously some friction there with their ex-partner, and they're calling them the other parent.

as I'm saying, there are deadbeat dads. Yes, don't get me wrong about that. But there are also a lot of dads out there that are trying to be good dads who want to be with their children, who want to help raise their children, but their children are being used against them for personal reasons. Now, I've never met Eli's biological father, so I can't

Jey (54:05.808)

100 percent. 100 percent.

Nate (54:16.322)

base my opinion on his personality or anything about him really. But I'm automatically going to.

Let's say, let's use the word judge. I'm going to judge him for the fact that he did step back and go, no, I don't want to have this kid because he had kids before Eli and I believe he's had children after Eli as well. So that's why I have my issues there. But those are my issues. They're not for me to put onto my son and bad mouth is biological. No.

Jey (54:35.838)


Jey (54:47.577)


Yeah, they're not for Eli to deal with at all. They're not for your wife to deal with at all. Like those are your feelings and how you feel and you have to own those. And ultimately, I think he made a positive choice. Granted, it's hard, it was hard on your wife, it's hard on Eli now, it's gonna be hard on Eli later. But he stepped out and he stayed out of the picture.

to not confuse him more, to not make it any worse.


Jey (00:01.658)

So they're not his feelings, they're your feelings, they're her feelings. And you guys can't pass those on to him because that's not fair to him. But I do think he, you know, his biological father made the right choice for Eli for that situation. And I think that's a lot of dads who are dead beats and labeled that, you know.

Nate (00:12.555)


Nate (00:22.857)


Jey (00:30.642)

I think that's because they're inconsistent and they don't show up when they're supposed to show up and they don't meet their end of the bargain when they're supposed to meet their end of the bargain. And they just continually failed and hurt their kids, which causes more damage versus if they just didn't be involved or weren't involved, period, to begin with.

Nate (00:39.491)


Nate (00:51.766)

Yeah, exactly. And that's where I do have some respect for the guy. Like I'm not bitter and angry at him. I don't understand. And I think that's why I have those judgments. I don't understand why he'd step back like that. But that being said, kudos to him. He knew that he wasn't going to be a good father or he knew that he just, he didn't have enough spoons.

Jey (01:03.382)


Nate (01:20.574)

I'm sure you know that term, you know, maybe he just didn't have enough spoons at that point, whatever it may be. Like he knew that he couldn't do the job, maybe just couldn't do the job as well as he knew he should. And like you say, he removed himself entirely, instead of being a wishy washy dad, doing his best, but his best not being good enough.

Jey (01:20.806)

Hmm. Yeah.

Jey (01:44.534)

Yeah, and sometimes that's better. And I think it's interesting what you said talking about parental alienation. That's the whole thing because it's common on both things. And I don't think people realize the depth of parental alienation and how you saying something like, oh, you just saying how you feel about a situation to your kid with their mother or their father, that parental alienation in a form.

because you're projecting a feeling outwards, towards and out loud with your kid in the room, that can make them feel a different way about their parent. And that's not healthy. And I saw a quote the other day, actually on a dad's group, so many kids grow up thinking they have a deadbeat father, really, all they really had was a very bitter mother. And it sucks that that's true.

Nate (02:26.39)

Yeah, I'm.

Jey (02:42.378)

It goes both ways because some kids think they have a deadbeat mom, a mom who doesn't care and not involved when ultimately they had a dad who just had money or had a power struggle or is narcissistic or had the ability to screw over that woman because she fucked him by giving him a kid and he didn't want the kid, she kept the kid, she didn't listen to him so she's just going to take the kid and he's going to ruin her image and all that.

You know, and it's just, it's unfortunate because it does go both ways, but more commonly than not, there are a lot of bitter moms out there who are just trying to prove a point and manipulate the justice system. Especially here in America, because it is easily manipulated until you get a judge who sees right through the crap and grants a dad who doesn't have anything against him, who hasn't done anything wrong per se.

And that dad gets granted 50-50. And then the mom's screwed because now she only gets part of the child support she was getting. She can't live off that anymore. Now she has to adjust. Now she only has the kids half the time. And then all these other people start to see the real picture because now he's in the picture. And everyone's wondering, well, now what she said before doesn't make sense because now I've met interacted with this dad.

I've worked with him.

what she was saying before about him, that's not who he really is based off my interactions with him. It really starts to turn the tables and it's really interesting when that happens. But parental alienation, it's a dark and windy path and it's not a healthy one for anyone involved.

Nate (04:35.142)

No, and I think what a lot of parents in that situation seem to forget as well is that kids, especially in those early years, like that first seven years when their brain has still gone through those theta brain waves and really developing all those neuro, what's the word, all those neuron pathways and all that sort of thing, that they don't really have an identity of their own.

Jey (04:56.912)


Nate (05:02.562)

that their identity is I'm half mum and I'm half dad, right? And so it can, another example of this alienation can be as simple as, oh my God, I wish you wouldn't do that. You remind me of your father every time or, you know, oh my God, you're just like your bloody mother. Now your child knows that you have issues with their other parent, with their mother or father. They know that.

Jey (05:19.791)


Nate (05:31.71)

And so when you start saying, oh, you're just, you're acting just like your father or your, you know, your mother does this all the time, I wish she'd stop that. They see that as a personal attack because half of their identity is that other parent.

Jey (05:50.086)

Exactly. 100% and you're putting them off of who they are.

Nate (05:50.405)

So I just wanted to point that one out, because it's subtle.

Yeah, exactly.

Jey (05:57.754)

So it's unfortunate, but you know, as we get close to concluding here, we can go on. I think parental alienation is a very deep topic that needs its own time in itself and is one because I think a lot of dads do it without realizing it. And it's really unhealthy just for you as a person as a dad to be doing that, especially in at least in the state of Washington where I am.

If you have a parenting plan in court, you can actually get held in contempt for doing so because it clearly goes against your parenting plan. It's written out and spelled out in there that you can't do that. And let's say it's caught, it's recorded, you're fucked. So we don't want that.

Nate (06:38.388)


Nate (06:50.458)

All it takes is that other parent to go to court and file the contempt papers with that evidence and like you say, you're fucked.

Jey (06:58.382)

Yeah, it's gonna get upheld. Oh, sorry. Sorry. And it's not gonna be pretty on the back end of that. It's not gonna be fun. That contempt's not gonna be dropped against you no matter how much you apologize. Cause that's a personal attack. It's something that's affecting the kids and it's something you're clearly told not to do. So just be careful. If you're co-parenting, just be careful with what you say, what you do.

Nate (07:22.33)


Jey (07:28.686)

Be you, have your own home, have your values, have your rules, have your own sets, do your own thing, but just be mindful of what that court order says. Read those papers in full so you know what you can and cannot do and to what end your burden exists and meet that burden. If your burden is a...

70-30 split and you're 30 meet your 30% Do what you need to do if you feel you're paying way too much child support and it's not Going to where it needs to be going pull the receipts take the pictures My kids been wearing these same shoes since April and I've been paying X amount of child support for the last Six months and now they've outgrown these shoes and these are the only shoes they wear and they're ragged and tagged and

You know, the money that I'm paying isn't being used for clothes or for hygiene. Every time my kid comes to me, they stink or all these other things. Like where's, where is this going? Or they're always saying that they're hungry whenever they're here and they don't, cause they don't have food at mom's and whatever. Keep the receipts, keep the receipts, be like Dion Sanders and keep the receipts for everything and don't let anything slide. And as soon as you need it, you have it.

You know, one thing that frustrates me the most about my parenting plan is that we're supposed to be 50-50 on costs for extracurricular activities. I have Venmo requests to this woman from over a year ago.

Nate (09:04.354)

Yep. That must be frustrating, man. Look, and like I was saying before we started recording, I kind of, I feel kind of guilty as a dad sometimes, I think, because I've had it really easy. I've got a really easy child. You know, I've not dealt with the early morning wake ups because he gets up and makes his own breakfast and does his own thing. I've not had, I've been...

Jey (09:05.312)

A year.

Jey (09:09.382)


Nate (09:33.95)

You know, I'm on my second marriage now, but I didn't have children. My first wife, so I've not had to deal with custody and parental plans and all that sort of thing. You know, there are a lot of dads out there like yourself, man, that have been going through the wars. And I've just not had to do that. I've floated in, you know, I didn't even have to make the make the baby to become a father. You know, I floated in, become a dad, and it's been easy sailing for me. So I will say, man.

Hats off to you, hats off to all those other dads out there that are really doing the grind, you know, cause those are some really important points you've just made. Document everything, watch your words and follow the parenting plan. That's your best chance of getting custody of your kids back if not just trying to have whatever minimal contact that you do have already not taken away. Yeah.

Jey (10:31.082)

Yeah, and if you do have to contact the other, your co-parent, the mother or the father, just keep it.

Keep it transactional. Like, it doesn't need to be personal. It doesn't need to be over the top. It doesn't need to be so fancy. Keep it transactional. Like, thank you, appreciate it. This is the time, this is the place, this is the thing. I need these things back because they went to your place last time. No big deal, can you send them back? Please and thank you. School's on Monday, I don't have their backpack. I'm supposed to drop them off. Can you drop off their backpack? Please and thank you.

Or can you take it to school for them? Please and thank you. Mind your P's and Q's. Be nice. Be transactional. That's it. Don't worry about what she's doing or what he's doing. Don't worry about all these other trivial things. Don't worry about all these things that you feel you need to worry about. That they affect you. In reality they don't affect you a damn bit. Um, her choices and how she's...

impacting your kid's perspective and in their lives? Yes, that sucks. Can you change it? Even if you try? No, you can't. Stop letting it bother you. Because guess what? Your kid's going to see it. Your kid's going to see it. They're going to realize it. They're going to realize it. Give it time. Give it a chance. Let it marinate. Your kid's going to realize it. They're going to realize that you're

Nate (11:51.119)


Jey (12:03.854)

the quote unquote better parent because you're not the one causing more damage and confusion and hurting them in ways that their other parent doesn't see them being hurt.

Nate (12:16.031)

And just one more point I want to add to that Jay is the fact of contact. Right now I know I'm in Australia and I'm very detached but like I say I do a lot of research with American staff and politics, the family law courts, that whole thing. You don't need to be texting each other on your personal numbers. The family courts in the States have some really great suggestions for

you know, parenting apps and you know, custody apps.

Jey (12:46.931)

A lot of times they make you use those apps for those situations.

Nate (12:50.078)

Yeah, and then that way everything is recorded for the courts as well. They can pull all that communication up.

Jey (12:54.756)


Yeah, my ex-wife and I text because she wanted to use one of those apps, but there was nothing in place that said we had to. And I thought it was useless because we were communicating just fine, then she wanted to implement it. And I'm like, this is dumb. I'm not using this because we can handle communicating as adults. So I'm not, I'm not doing that. It was a big point of contention. I'm like, look, I'm not doing it.

I'm not doing it because there's no point in it. There's nothing that says I have to do this. No one that says I have to. If you're choosing not to communicate with me because I'm not choosing to give in to you, then that's on you for not communicating the way that we've always communicated about things. And you want to suddenly change it, and I'm not willing to do so. I don't have to be willing. I don't have to appease you.

Because it doesn't, it doesn't, there's nothing that says I have to. If there is something that said I had to, different story. Guess what? There's not. So I'm not going to.

Nate (13:52.75)

Very true.

Jey (14:03.546)

So if you want to talk and not communicate with me about the kids, that's on you to not communicate and talk to me about the kids. But I'm communicating, I'm doing my part. I'm sending you the messages, I'm telling you what's going on my end. If you're choosing not to do the same, that's on you. That's on you. And it got to that point where we tried it, I hated it. And I just told her one day, I'm done with this, I'm deleting it, I'm not paying for it anymore. We can go back to using regular texting like we have been for...

The duration of the whole time we've known each other?

If you don't respond and you don't want to communicate, that's on you. That's your accountability part of it. But there's nothing that says I have to do this. I don't like it. I don't want to and I don't have to. So, um, so, but I agree. There are a lot of really good resources. There's a lot of really good apps. A lot of time you can get those paid for through the court because they'll be court ordered. Um, so use those, make sure you're on those.

Nate (14:48.238)


Jey (15:07.318)

And even then, be the nice one, be transactional. Because if you're just being transactional, a judge is gonna use their objectiveness and be like, well, I don't see anything wrong with your communication, but you see your communication over here, pretty hostile, pretty effed up. This one, he's just telling you the days and times and dates and information you need to know. You're taking a lot of personal shots here in harassing.

You're not. Judges aren't dumb. When they have the evidence in front of them, they're able to equally weigh the evidence, because there's nothing, there's no he said, she said part of it. And it makes it a lot simpler and a lot smoother.

Nate (15:47.561)


Nate (15:51.282)

Yeah, and like you said, man, the family courts are rigged against the men. So we have to do that due diligence in order to make sure we don't screw ourselves even harder.

Jey (16:03.294)

Even with that then being rigged Make your case Like when you're in front of that judge or when you're getting those statements or you need additional supporting evidence Get those character witnesses get references from your job Contact everyone you need to contact Because if you come in with a case and a story

and written character witnesses from a variety of people, church leaders, family, friends, co-workers, elementary school teachers, high school teachers, secondary education teachers, the random dude you met at Applebee's last Tuesday that you had a drink with thought you were really cool, your coach, because your kid's coach saw you were the one bringing him.

95% of the time and you were at every single game. Make your case. Because it's still, even in a lot of places, there's a lot of male justices.

Jey (17:20.974)

And I see it firsthand because I sit in those courtrooms during those parental hearings and I sit in them during the protection order hearings and I sit in them during these different hearings and A well-made case is a well-made case A shit bag is a shit bag and he's gonna get what's coming to him and he's gonna get it The evidence is gonna stack against him Or it can stack in your favor and you can get what you want and you could win The amount that you want

Nate (17:21.203)


Jey (17:50.362)

So don't be afraid to make your case and make it damn good because you might only get one shot.

So make that case. And if you're really passionate, keep fighting. Don't stop fighting because the fight's gonna be worth it in the end. Yeah, is it gonna be expensive? Probably, lawyers aren't cheap. But is it gonna be worth it? Absolutely. So.

Nate (18:16.606)

Yeah, I'm with you there, man. Absolutely, 100%.

Jey (18:20.282)

Percent so I just want to ask you just before we head out and we wrap up here I know we're going a little bit long for our listeners here. That's okay. You guys are gonna listen through anyway, because it's awesome, but What is the one and this is something I ask everyone? What is that one piece of advice that? You would give to a dad that's down in the dumps in a dark place That came to you and said yo Nate. I need some advice. I need some help. I'm in this dark place

Help me get out of it.

Nate (18:57.266)

That's a good one, my friend. Because funnily enough, I do this a lot. I tend to be that guy that's checking in with everyone. I'm the R U OK guy. And I have had to talk a lot of people down. At the end of the day, like you can't use a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

Jey (19:03.334)


Jey (19:10.662)


Nate (19:25.298)

Like you say, even if it's a custody battle or you've gone through the family courts for whatever reason and it could just be trying to iron out that parenting plan, yeah it sucks, yeah it's hard, yeah it does take an emotional toll, but it's not worth taking your life over. Your kids want you around, your kids, if anything do it for your kids. Everybody

Everybody says I would die for my kids. All right, that's honorable. Would you live for them?

Jey (20:01.83)


Nate (20:04.682)

And I think that's the easiest way to say it, would you live for your kids?

Jey (20:10.855)

Yeah. No, and I 100% agree because that's, that's the kicker right there. I mean, yeah, I'll take a bullet for my kids. I'll do anything for my kids. I'll do this and that for my kids.

And I don't think we realize when that time comes that we're what we're really saying and what we're gonna what we're trying to do here because we're

Jey (20:44.526)

We're so focused because that's the easier way out. It's the easier option. I know at least here in the United States, it's a four to one ratio of men to women that die by suicide.

Nate (20:50.848)

It is at n-

Nate (20:56.712)

Yeah, absolutely.

Jey (20:57.954)

Women attempt more often, but and they're unsuccessful more often because they use least less lethal methods.

Men, we don't. We go for it. We're gonna fucking do it. We're gonna fucking do it. Yeah, we'll get it done the first time. 100%. And so it's sad, but...

Nate (21:13.846)

Well, we do shit properly. Do the job properly, I don't do it at all. And I mean, I know it's not something you should be joking about, but yeah, like you say, it's a case of, yeah, I'd die for my kids, I'd take a bullet for my kids, but will you live for your kids? Will you be a better person for your kids? Will you just be the best parent that you can be for your kids? And that's the other end of the spectrum. That's the hard shit. And that's what really...

Jey (21:22.82)


Nate (21:43.082)

shows your character even stronger.

Jey (21:46.942)

100% and without that then you're

you're losing a battle. You're losing battle and part of living for your kids is changing, is making a concerted effort, is being there, is showing up for yourself, taking care of your own self-care, taking care of your own, just everything, your own mental ability to function as an individual, as a parent.

Nate (21:55.65)

That's it man.

Jey (22:21.162)

And that all goes hand in hand with it. And it's no joking matter when it comes to suicide, but, you know, are you gonna get up and live for your kids today? Are you gonna get up and live for them tomorrow? Part of that living isn't just making a living.

Jey (22:40.486)


Nate (22:41.454)

It's as simple as just don't quit for one more day. Just keep going for one more day. And then guess what? Wake up tomorrow and just keep going for one more day. Take it a day at a time. As dark as it may be, take it a day at a time. Cause next thing you know, you're gonna be six months down the track. You're gonna be feeling a hell of a lot better. And you're gonna be going, man, I can't believe I was in that shit pit, but I made it out.

Jey (23:10.734)

100% man. All right, man. Well, let's wrap up here. I appreciate your time. It's been a good conversation I think we got plenty of good golden delicious straight out of the McDonald's Friar Nuggets today and It's it was good. It was it was beautiful. It's fun. It was amazing talking to you well worth the wait Where where can the people find more you?

Nate (23:39.022)

Uh, firstly, come down to Western Sydney. I'll cook you a barbecue. That's it. Let's, let's, let's catch up. But, uh, no, failing that, but failing that guys, uh, get over to, uh, not so secret dads It's all one word. You can find me on my socials, which are both at not so secret dads business. Uh, you can find the podcast wherever you stream good podcasts. You know, if you're listening to. To the, the.

Jey (23:45.354)

The shrimp on the body.

Nate (24:08.35)

Young Dad podcast on Spotify, you're gonna find not so secret dad's business there. Basically we're everywhere, man. You can find us. I haven't picked up on your thing yet of doing all the reels and all that sort of stuff because that's still out of my depth. I haven't gotten that far. I've done a few here or there, but yeah, look guys, if you wanna reach out, send me a message. My DMs are always open.

Jey (24:18.671)

Love that.

Jey (24:30.342)


Nate (24:38.686)

And that goes for my audience and your audience as well, Jay.

Jey (24:43.65)

Likewise likewise and of course you can find more of us at young dad pod on Facebook Instagram Twitter slash x Threads Tik-tok you can find me at ball boy jay on tik-tok. You can find Everything and then some other stuff over on our website Ballboy media comm and then you can also find

just my writings and things like that over on Medium as well. I started posting on there a couple weeks ago just some stuff that was already written on my blog just to cross-pollinate it. So it's out there, it's available, and again like you said my DMs are always open to your audience, to my audience, we're here. I answer all the DMs myself and it's a lot of fun. You can always

and communicate via that way, you can reach out to us through all the social channels, any way that you feel comfortable, the link in the show notes, everything's available to you. So make sure you use that, check it all out. And then Nate, just once again, thank you for the conversation. Thank you for the time. And we're gonna have to do this again sometime.

Nate (26:03.886)

Absolutely man. Look, thanks so much for staying up late over there because I know Seattle to Sydney man, it's a tough ride with time going.

Jey (26:13.57)

I think you're plus 17, maybe plus 15 or 17.

Nate (26:18.166)

something around that. Yeah, it's currently 3.30 in the afternoon on Saturday here. But guys, if you're listening to this on Not So Secret Dad's Business as well, please get over and check out Jay's podcast, the Young Dad podcast. It's awesome. As you've heard, there's an in-studio audience, which is my first ever podcast having that. So please guys, check out Jay's podcast. There's a whole heap of awesome stuff there.

Jey (26:24.783)

Yeah, 15.

Jey (26:49.306)

Yeah, they started clapping as soon as you mentioned them. No, likewise, if you're listening to our podcast, if you're listening to the Young Dad podcast, check out Not So Secret Dad Business, a great catalog of episodes, really cool guy hosting it, talked to him once, pretty cool. Not gonna lie, all right, dude, pass the check. But no, seriously, great show, really gets into the weeds over there on all these hot topic, hot button dad issues that.

Nate (26:51.981)


Jey (27:17.07)

We all want to hear more about and yet none of us want to talk about.

Nate (27:22.486)

Hey Jay, thanks for having me and this has been fun. I love the conversation and we've been on plenty of juicy tangents So it's been it's been awesome

Jey (27:28.994)

Love it. There's only more to go down.

Nate (27:33.93)

Absolutely, we're going to do this again. We'll have to do another crossover episode, my friend.

Jey (27:38.155)

100% my friend.


There is a first time for everything, and today is that day as we do a cross-platform recording and co-host the same show that one can hear on two platforms. We weld together the Young Dad Podcast and (Not So) Secret Dad Business into one beautiful little recording for all to hear from the U.S.A. to down Unda' in Australia and across the globe.

A little about Nathan, the host of (Not So) Sacred Dad Business: his show is fantastic as he talks about all the aspects of fatherhood, men's mental health, and other men's issues- like child trafficking and internet safety and isn't afraid to get into the weeds of other hot button issues. His show is to educate dads like you and me.

A little more about Nate before jumping in since we show the recording across both platforms for all to hear. Nate is a father of 1 and an active dadvocate; he works 50+ hours a week welding and fabrication in Western Sydney, Australia. He is also an incredibly involved father at home and coaches him on the weekends.

Get comfy, pop that straw in your juice box, open that snack, and let's talk.

Find more from Nate:

Instagram: / notsosecretdadsbusiness


Website: ⁠https://www.notsosecretdadsbusiness.c...

From Your Hosts- Jey and Aaron:

Jey is a published Children's book Author! Yes, our very own! Check out his book- A Baseball Game with Dad, LIVE on Amazon right now! ⁠⁠

We partnered with Fore Fathers Clothing; click the link, read the story, and you will only leave the website with a new polo for yourself or a dad you love. ⁠⁠

JOIN US over on the Young Dad Podcast- ⁠Facebook Page⁠. We would love it if you followed and supported us as we grow and expand the Podcast.

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Transcript: Jey (00:07.804) Yes, our Live in the Studio audience is so excited you guys are here. Welcome into another episode of the Young Dad Podcast. I'm Jay and joining me today are the hosts of t